Sad...yes…but…only a symptom...

Indeed, Spitzer, his family, public/private sector leader, crime fighters, ethicists, and most right thinking people will agree this story and outcome are “sad, sad, sad.”

Michael, I know you are familiar with the concept of a turning point as a historical construct…being a time where change is occurring that goes largely unrecognized by the masses. According to most futurists, authorities like Dr. Robert Bunker and others, we are living in such a time.

As sad a tale as the Spitzer tale might be, the magnitude of it and others like it are but indicators and are dwarfed by the behavior of both public and private sector leaders who both encourage and sanction such things by turning blind eyes. Again, while sad, such stories are dwarfed in the social upheaval cast by illegal immigration; the impacts of which (no matter how one slices and dices the issues) are enormous.

For example, estimates of the financial impacts to the American people and the U.S. treasury are enormous. Depending on whom you ask, the costs in education, health care, and jails is “$45 billion” according to the Vernon K. Krieble Foundation. Estimated unremembered cost, just for southern border counties, exceed $200 billion dollars according to the Southern Border Counties Coalition. The GAO and other U.S. agencies put long-term financial impact on the U.S. into the trillions of dollars.

Numerous credible studies reveal nearly incalculable suffering by Americans due to crimes committed by those in our country illegally; including assaults, robbery, rape, drug smuggling, prostitution, human trafficking, and upwards of 60,000 dead American citizens in less than ten years time (equaling losses in Vietnam U.S. combat troups and dwarfing the tragic losses on 9/11 and in the “war on terror” since 9/11). These are American people that would otherwise be alive, with their families, and contributing to their communities, and our economy yet today. What of Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Campion, imprisoned for doing their job…protecting our borders…yes political prisoners.

But for the irresponsible and unethical conduct of our public and private sector ‘leaders’ (including the likes of Spitzer), these crimes (covered in political correctness and a silent media) would not have occurred and thousands of now dead Americans would be alive today.

As disturbing as these facts are, the damage being done to America’s culture may at this point in time be irreversible.

What I want to ask you Michael, and other ethicists is…where are the voices of the myriad ethics organizations on what is arguably one of the top defining issues of our times…illegal immigration…? Don’t these organizations have an obligation to speak out on “illegal” immigration and the collateral damage that falls in its wake?

The silence by the ethics community is beyond sad, sad, sad !

Very sad I agree...could not believe how the news glorified the call girl...how this would help her career.

Very alarming about the illegal immigrants!!!

When the LAPD uses a female officer to catch people who hire prostitutes, they take them to jail on the spot because prostitution is illegal. My question is: How come Mr Spitzer is not in jail? Is it because he was not caught on the spot or is it because he has money?

I cannot express the frustration felt towards the situations and people discussed above. There are so many more and the list is just growing. The simple and logical principles of measuring “right” and “wrong” are clearly void of too many that have been given the name and opportunity of being a leader. Is everyone perfect? No. However, the law or expectation that something is good for one person is just as good for the next. Prominent leaders - this applies to you. It is time that that individuals who function in a world they have created on their own (where the rules don't apply to them), receive the same consequence as the "Average Joe" does when he deceives. Anything different supports and enables these individuals' distorted perception of respectable conduct.

Italians, Irish, and many other people from around the world have been looked on as a danger to our culture in the past. But America is strengthened by diversity. You can also argue financial impacts either way. The fact is a lot of hard work gets done by legal and illegal immigrants. Last year fruit was rotting in the trees in California because there weren't enough people to pick. Hopefully we will treat the innocent children of illegal immigrants well by allowing them to go to good schools and help them become productive citizens.

Dear Michael
Without sounding too judgmental, I like to comment that someone of his position and status should be severly punished. All celebrities are so visible, they truly undermine moral values for young people who look up to them. As such they need to be punished according to their irresponsible behaviors. How many young people have imitated a so-called idol just to get in very serious trouble. I believe this is one reason our society is becoming so decadent. If I'm correct, decadent societies usually fall, sometimes by God's wrath to cleanse people of wrongdoers as well as innocents.

What was worst was former President Bill Clinton's sex scandals, especially the one with Monica Lewinsky. However, he held on to his office when he should have been thrown out of office. Yet his popularity with the people remained high. Imagine the parents who had to explain to their children what the news media was reporting. Why did the American people still hold the former president high on a pedestal? Has society's morals and ethics gone to hell?

14 March 2008

Dear Michael:

Mr. Spitzer's behavior is I believe emotional abuse - lets give more attention to the enormous pain that he has caused his wife and children.
So long as men in power think that they can get away with abusing their family's - including their parents, brothers and sisters and cousins, things won't ever change.

And you are right - the sex trade worker is someone else's daughter who knew what she was doing and was driven by the financial gains just like most of the men who frequent them - they must have money or use someone else's money to buy the sex.

If Mr.Spitzer professes to follow God - even more hypocrisy for in 1 Corinthians 10:31 - we are to do all we do for the glory of God - does Mr. Spitzer have a God. Cant imagine God watching over him and approving what he did. May God have mercy on him and protect his family.

May society not condone what has been done. This intelligent man ? as all intelligent men should ask themselves this question.

Will my actions hurt the ones I love???????????
Do the graduates from Harvard not think?

This is a great embarrassment to not only his family but to his position and his Alma Mater. Can the media find any Harvard graduate who has truly done good for his country and let us hear about that and not hear about the failures of men.

M. Smith

Sadly, I'm numbed by this scandal...it's so common these days whether the accused is famous, holds a public office or not. It was unsettling though, to see a strong, confident, seemingly unfazed Eliot Spitzer give an (in my opinion) unremorseful apology while his emotionally ravaged wife stood by him. It was almost as if they were part of two different press conferences.

Also, if it's proven Mr. Spitzer did not use campaign funds to pay for his trysts, his personal paycheck is drawn from taxpayers' money, is it not? That's why the argument that offenses like these are "a private matter" therefore allowing a guilty public servant to remain in office, isn't plausible.

to me ,the crime is hypocrisy...if mr .spitzer has healthy shame he will be punished, one way or another. Hypocrisy...to his wife and all those that he held to the law.

The argument of ethnic groups being scorned in past is a common red herring without context to immigration challenges. The last great immigration influx lasted from the 1800s to the early 1900s. The immigrants of that time came by invitation, and many weren’t allowed in. Large numbers returned to their homelands of their own volition. The Immigrants of that time, like my German ancestors who stayed in America, integrated into American culture and pledged their allegiance to the United States of America. My ancestors didn’t carry German flags. While I agree America is strengthened by diversity, it is weakened by multiculturalism. Those who believe multiculturalism is a good thing should consider going to live in the Balkans or Iraq for a taste of it.

Moreover, to suggest that financial impacts swing “either way” is an argument born of ignorance of both past and current history. There was no income tax, nor were there any government social services in the last great immigration. People who came to America were on-their-own. Today, according to the U.S. GAO Comptroller General, the U.S. government would have to immediately put up 58 trillion dollars to meet all current and near term (mid-century) unfunded obligation. In other terms, to meet these obligations every family in America would have to come up with nearly a half-a-million dollars…NOW! Illegal immigrants only add to that burden. How much are you willing to increase your tax burden? The financial cost of illegal immigration cuts one way, and the numbers are in deep negative territory…over 54 billion dollars alone in just social, education, and prison costs…and that’s just the beginning.

And while certainly “a lot of hard work gets done by legal and illegal immigrants” there are a lot of American citizens who are out of work because people are here taking those jobs for a fraction of what these same jobs paid in the past. The argument these aliens are only taking jobs that Americans won’t do is spurious…even laughable. In every other industry besides agriculture, where immigrants work, those here illegally comprise less than 25% of the workforce. That means in every one of those industries at least 75% of those doing these jobs are American citizens. Forty percent of all black males in the U.S. are unemployed. Why do you think that is? As a teen I made $5 to $6 per hour in 1966 as a construction laborer. Parity today would require that same job to pay $36/hr. American citizens of Austin, Minnesota once worked in meat packing plants earning between $15 and $20 per hour with benefits. These American blue collar workers were displaced almost entirely by illegal aliens for $8/hr and no benefits when large agra-business broke their unions. Other examples are legion. Finally the reason the “fruit was rotting” was not for lack of labor; but rather a function of a broken visa and ag-labor laws. The U.S. allows approximately 1,000,000 people to immigrate into the U.S. legally every year, compared to 170,000 prior to 1968. It is a myth, created by media and big agra-business, that there aren’t enough immigrants to pick fruit. The reality is that those who come under the pretense to work in agriculture immediately move to other occupations such as construction and service industry jobs. The reasons are obvious.

As for the question of children of illegal immigrants; they are overwhelming our education, health care, social, and other institutional resources. Sixty percent of them don’t graduate from our high schools. Those children born of immigrant women, aka anchor babies, are a financial burden to the U.S. treasury, collecting over $400/month for 18 years. Most will never become productive citizens in the sense that they will pull their weight in remittance to the U.S. treasury. In fact to the contrary, each person in America with only a high school education or less, citizen or not, has a net cost to the U.S. treasury of $20,000 per year…totaling approximately ONE MILLION dollars over their lifetime.

Illegal immigration isn’t a victimless crime. Any who believe that it is need only ask one of the millions of American citizens who are out of work or ask the family member of the hundreds of thousands of American citizens victimized by petty and violent crime. Better still, ask the families of the nearly 60 thousand American citizens who have been killed by a person in the U.S. illegally.

Brandon, in the first comment on this page, I believe has gone somewhat off topic by speaking about Illegal immigration.

I realize that by responding to his comment here, I too will be going off topic, and I apologize to all concerned for doing so, but I do feel that there were comments Brandon made that need to be responded to.

Firstly, I would like to point out that Mr. Spitzer is no immigrant - he was born and brought up as a citizen of the USA.

I make this point as Brandon was very keen to point out that the "problem with society" is illegal immigrants - that they, in Brandon's view - are responsible for all the crime and for the economic ruin of society.

As a non-American, I find that attitude toward non-Americans offensive.

Brandon refers to illegal immigration as a "defining issue" - well, if you'll excuse the pun, may i define the issue - illegal immigration is the entry into a country by any means other than the legally imposed means - without the required documentation.

The determination of who may or may not enter a country is left to civil servants, and for the most part, their decisions are final and without room for appeal. One might say you can appeal a decision in court, but that is made virtually impossible due to the cost of legal representation required in order to be successful. So, while I am sure the men and women who are burdened with this responsibility of sifting through the thousands of applications do their best to be objective and apply the legal instruments to the process, these are fallible human beings. However, the impact of their decisions, right or wrong, can be devastating to the applicants and their families. To the official, it is just a name on a piece of paper - but each name represents a real person who, just like the US citizen, is trying to provide for his or her family.

My question to Brandon and people who feel as he does is:
where are the voices of the millions of Americans speaking against the inhumane conditions in the countries from which these “illegal immigrants” are fleeing? When US soldiers posted to Okinawa are found to have raped young girls – where is the outcry and protest on US soil? Are Japanese children of less value than American ones?

You see, there are con men (and con women) and other criminals who either travel abroad or by some means take advantages of foreigners and commit crimes against them. Let us look at the issue of human trafficking - where people are first of all tricked into cooperating, and then brought into the country under false pretenses (thus they are made illegal immigrants) and then turned into slaves - some for domestic help, but mostly for the sex trade. Here is the rub, Brandon, human trafficking would not be viable or possible unless there are CITIZENS who are willing to bankroll it and are keen to benefit from it.

As far as i know, the young woman who was Mr. Spitzer's prostitute was in fact a US citizen, but no doubt some of the money lavished on her would have gone to the pimps, I mean escort agency, that advertised her services. Some of that money could well have been used to bankroll the trafficking of women and children for the sex trade.

I really should not join in this debate because I am neither an American nor an illegal immigrant. I live in South Africa, to which I emigrated (legally!) five years ago from the tragic land of Zimbabwe.

I had never heard of Mr Spitzer until the scandal hit the news. I have no idea what sort of reputation he had up to that point, though having read the comments above I gather he was held in high regard as a representative of respectable society and a suitable role model for his juniors to follow. I was shocked (and at the age of 75 there is no longer much that shocks me) to hear of a man in such high office being foolish and weak enough to get involved in such dirty dealings.

How much more of a shock it must have been, therefore, to the New Yorkers who had voted him into office. To his family it must have been vastly more devastating. As I watched his poor wife’s body language as she stood loyally beside him in the glare of the television cameras, I could almost read her mind. One did not need to know her personally to feel her pain. The fact that he put her in that invidious position, in itself, demonstrates his lack of love and respect for her. He did not seem very remorseful, and not once did I see him glance at her to see how she was reacting. My heart went out to her, and I have not ceased to pray for her and her family.

There is no question about it. The man has disgraced his family, his office and his nation. If he professes a faith, he has dishonored his God.

He deserves incarceration for at least three “misdemeanors.”
1) Consorting with prostitutes.
2) Holding High Office under false pretenses.
3) The possible misuse of public money, and also probably the theft of time paid for by the taxpayer. (As far as I know, these have yet to be proved.)

Only Heaven knows what will be discovered next. The sooner he fades from the public eye, the better.

Brandon and John have been commenting on the issue of illegal immigrants. Here are my thoughts on that.

We have plenty illegal immigrants here in South Africa. Our northern neighbor, and my previous homeland, Zimbabwe, no longer the “bread basket of Southern Africa,” cannot feed its people. Disastrous political decisions have bankrupted the country; many once lush, productive farms lie uncultivated and barren. Unemployment is over 80%. There are no foodstuffs on the supermarket shelves and the roadside stalls have little to offer. People are desperate, and thousands are crossing the Zambesi River illegally every day. The South African police gather up all they can find and deport them to their home country. Sometimes the same people get back to Johannesburg before the policemen who escorted them out can.

Zimbabwe is not the only country providing South Africa with refugees. Mozambique, Angola, the Congo, Somalia and even countries further north are represented by many of their nationals seeking greener pastures south of the Zambesi.

South Africans, jealous of their jobs, resent this invasion, and resist vigorously. Xenophobia rears its ugly head and dreadful fights and even murders happen. Of course some refugees, lacking friends and unable to find the “green pastures,” are driven to theft and other crimes, but most manage to find employment because they are willing to work for less and employers exploit this in spite of the threat of dire punishment if caught. Most illegal immigrants work harder and are more honest than the local people. Many fall victim to local criminals. Being illegal they cannot complain and draw attention to themselves. This is a very similar situation to that in the USA.

It is a great pity we cannot work out a plan to allow them to enter the country, (provided their own country gives them a clean police record), work for a period and then go home. They are no more or less responsible for crime than the local folk, who need no coaching in this activity.

The likes of Spitzer, thumbing their noses at law and order, are often much more than the symptoms of a sick society, they are the primary cause of the malady. If people in high positions commit crime and get away with it, the hoi polloi will follow.

Until society accepts and lives by the laws of God, we will find no solution to despicable individual miscreants such as “Mister Spitzer” and those who enter the country with the actual intent to commit crime; or to the mass disrespect of the law by the entire population

“Come unto me, you who are tired and heavy-laden, and I will give you peace.”

I wonder if God is considering revising His decision never to flood the entire earth again.

Given the rising waters that are the result of global warming, one wonders if He has not already reached a decision, given the lawlessness that pervades the world, as in antediluvian times!

Actually, on second thought, there is no need for an Act of God; Man is doing the flooding all by himself.

We had all better learn to swim.

Unfortunately Public Officials ARE our representatives... (lest we think THEY are the "primary" moral/ethical offenders). This trend is indicative of America's current culture, not just the injustices/privileges of the rich/famous/elite. I see, hear & feel the lack of morals, ethics, character at EVERY turn... even in & by the local churches/clergy! I've just returned from 30 years abroad; I'm in shock, appalled, and very disillusioned with this Culture of "Wrong/Twisted Behaviors", thus I came to this website... Seeing & reading ALL you folks and your comments here give me a glimmer of hope, and a feeling of relief (which I never expected)! IS THERE ANY FOCUS GROUP/ORGANIZATION OF ETHICAL PEOPLE THAT HAVE COMMUNITY MEETINGS? (I'm in North Florida, looking for like-minded ethicallly oriented people NOT needing "saving" or AA/NA/SA/Immigrant services).